Spotlight on pubs: the professionals

Richard Littman

Age: 30

Job: Area manager, Urbium

Where: West End, London

Salary: £65,000-plus

Have you been doing this job long? I've just been promoted. Before this I was general manager at Tiger Tiger in Haymarket, Urbium's flagship club, although I started working for the company in February 2000.

What's your area? I've got six bars in the West End. There are two clubs, Zoo and Oxygen, in Leicester Square; the Loop, near Oxford Street, which is more like a restaurant; and the Digress, the Warwick and the Boardwalk in Soho.

So where did it all start? Well, I did a hospitality business management degree at Leeds Metropolitan University and spent my placement year working at My Kinda Town. They offered me a job, and I stayed until they were bought out by Capital Radio Restaurants. I moved on to Urbium because I wanted more development.

Was it a good move? Yes. I am passionate about this job. My aim was to become area manager and I have reached it, but I still want to go higher. The company is always expanding. In six to seven years I'd like to be at board level.

So you're ambitious, but what are your prospects at Urbium? There are lots of opportunities, because it's a growing company. It was called Chorion when I joined, and it only had three sites. Now it's got 30.

What else do you value about the company? I've done lots of training with Urbium - both internal and external - on subjects such as food hygiene, upselling and wine. It's important to me that I learn and develop. When I stop learning is when I walk away.

What's been your worst experience in the job? The only thing that nags away is when I've been on the front door and people have been spitting at me or shouting when I turn them away. I guess that proves we're right to turn those people away.

What have you found most rewarding? Tiger Tiger has challenged me the most, and I have particularly enjoyed seeing that venue succeed.

Is it all nocturnal work? No, we are busy at lunchtimes as well. As area manager I spend most of my working day, Monday to Friday, at the Shaftesbury Avenue headquarters; but I have to keep a balance between the office and overseeing the bars. There's no structure. Often on a Saturday evening I will walk around the bars. When I was a general manager there were night shifts and I would get home at 5am, but now I go home at 11pm or midnight.

So do you get time to party? I do party, but not at work. I never mix work and pleasure. Your social life suffers in some ways and is improved in other ways. Last night I went round a few of my bars and then met up with some friends elsewhere. I'd never go to one of my bars to drink.

Ria Dannan

Age: 35

Job: Pub and training manager, Geronimo Inns

Where: Builder's Arms, Chelsea, London

Salary: £25,000-£35,000

Why have you chosen to work in pubs? Initially, because I wanted experience across the board and because Geronimo is a group of gastropubs. I haven't done any formal hospitality qualifications, other than courses like health and safety. Before this I worked in restaurants. Most recently I spent six years as restaurant manager at Caf‚ Med. I also spent some time training restaurant staff in a hotel.

How does your job work? Well, it's in the process of changing. I will now spend 50% of my time being pub manager at the Builder's and 50% of my time setting up a training scheme for the company.

Could you tell us about the training? It's early days, but we'll use the Builder's Arms for hands-on training of assistant managers and so on. People who want a career with us will be sent on courses - either externally or using in-house training. I will be getting a handbook together and devising a programme to develop staff, because the company likes to promote from within. I will be liaising with our senior chef but I will concentrate on the bar staff. All our pubs are different, and so staff will need slightly different training according to the customers in their area.

What about the pub management side? I do all the usual jobs: setting up, taking beer deliveries and chatting to customers.

What's the best bit? I love meeting the people I work with - it's why I have stayed in this career so long. You get a real mix, because they don't all see pubs as a career. You get artists or voluntary animal protection workers and all sorts. The customers are interesting, too. It's not like restaurants, where people don't really want to talk to you. The pubs side is much more social, and people like to be spoken to.

And the worst bit? Having 22 kegs of beer in the cellar and not knowing where to shift it. This is a physical job, so when you are working at a peak it can be very tiring, but rewarding.

Sum up your view of pubs as a career. You can go a long way if you show that you want to. People will grab you up, because the industry needs people who enjoy it.

And for you? I would like to develop Geronimo's training innovation, and within eight months I would like to be doing it 100% of my time. The company is going to expand, so they need a training foundation.

Richard Allingham

Age: 28

Job: Pub manager, Spirit Group

Where: Parsons Barn, Shoeburyness, near Southend-on-Sea, Essex

Salary range: £20,000-£50,000

Did you start out in hospitality? No. I was studying aerospace engineering but failed my exams. On my way home to tell my parents I stopped off at a JobCentre and saw an ad for a trainee assistant manager with Scottish & Newcastle. I got it and worked my way up to assistant manager, then moved to being relief manager for the area manager working all over the South-east. Finally, two years ago I got this job. The company was taken over by Spirit Group last autumn.

So what are your responsibilities? It's a local community pub with a mixed age range, and we've got Sky TV, so we show the big matches. I've got seven staff - including the kitchen - and I manage both the food and the bar side of the business.

And where are you headed? Well, I've just been promoted. My girlfriend and I are going to become joint managers of a much bigger pub in June - the Prince of Wales in Fleet, Hampshire. After that I'd like to get into the restaurants division, become more involved in food and a different type of clientele. Then, ultimately, area manager.

Can you achieve all that at Spirit? Yes, there are lots of opportunities. It's a huge company now that it's taken over companies such as Scottish & Newcastle, and there are good training schemes.

Any regrets about leaving the aerospace industry? None. I like the social interaction of working in a pub. I'm independent, it's varied work - and it's fun.

There must be some downsides? You can get a lot of aggro during the big matches. People get drunk and you have to assess the situation and be firm but polite.

Would you say being a pub manager is more suited to men, then? No. It's usually easier for a female manager to cope with such situations. Male customers tend to listen to them and be less violent, whereas they might take a swing at a man.

CONTACTS

Geronimo Inns: www.geronimo-inns.co.uk

Spirit Group: www.thespiritgroup.com

Urbium: www.urbium.com